Q: 15 y/o son turning 16 in 4 months, and
headed to Bishop to be ordained a priest. Has been in SOH for 6 months, never
gone more than 10 days without slip up. As he works through next 4 months, what
is he working for? perfection?
A: With all men, young and old, the goal is
perfection. It is difficult for wives, that a Bishop’s role of judging and
helping a man through his issues, in that he may receive revelation that allows
for validation of progress prior to perfection. Each Bishop has a different standard for progress/expectations.
If I were mother, I would go in and talk through with Bishop in advance, to
understand his attitude, with intent to understand his personal approach. Some young men are working and moving
forward in all other areas, but other young men perfect their sexual side while
everything else is all a mess. Best
case scenario would be to understand Bishop’s approach so that you can be on
the same page.
Q: Have great relationship with Stake
President. He has asked me to speak next month. Heard that LCS has a kit that
they give to Bishops. Can I please get the Bishop’s kit?
A: We have kit for Bishops including Like
Dragons Did They Fight. Contact our office and they can get a kit to you. Contact Lisa Peterson: SOHoutreach@gmail.com.
Q: On the Facebook page some people have
shared Co-Dependents no more book. How do we balance not being Co-Dependent vs.
a recent talk by Elder Nelson who spoke on being unified. How do we balance
that?
A: Common question. I had been in
college at the time and had been working hard on a relationship, and it fell
apart. I was in a communications class, and a girl told me I was so messed up,
and hinted that I was psychologically dependent. She implied I was dysfunctional without someone else in my life.
I had to let myself observe flaws in American Psychology without the religious
impact.
There
are four different dependency types: CO-Dependent, Dependent, Independent, and
Inter-dependent which is often confused with Co Dependent. Inter-dependent is a
synergistic relationship that doesn’t exist unless the two are working
together. Every woman has a craving to create that celestial synergistic
relationship. But when she is highly invested, blamed as co-dependent.
True
co-dependency is when you fall apart and are not functional anymore, when you
don’t have access to interdependency.
Independent
psychological function for women is when they are in pioneer mode functioning
with dignity, confidence etc., while not relying on arm of flesh or needing
other person, but having strong ties with God.
Interdependency
– there is always a craving for this – ie relationship with man. When a man doesn’t get defensive, he can hear
a woman’s thoughts.
When
not behaving in interdependently, or independently, you are probably having a
co-dependent reaction to the situation.
When
you read non-LDS faith based books, please read carefully, as authors don’t
understand interdependency as God and prophets do.
Co-dependent
=Falling into depression, fear, undignified behaviors.
(Jennifer
Johnson: CoDependent No More by Melody Beattie is required reading for the
Worth Group.)
Q: Request that this be taught to men
this.
A: Once, some mud swallows built their
nests at back of Maurice’s house. To build their nest, they throw mud and
sticks. It often falls on the ground and doesn’t stick.
Working
as a counselor, is like these mud swallows - mudsplatting ideas into people’s
brains. While we can address and teach principles, they don’t necessarily
stick.
Sometimes
if nothing is sticking, women have tendency to think we aren’t addressing. It
often doesn’t stick. If you are relying on something to stick in a man’s brain,
you are being co-dependent.
Q: What if it is husband being the
co-dependent. He doesn’t function well if you aren’t there for him…as a father
or husband.
A: Go back into pioneer woman mode. Be
pleasant and dignified. If you have great powers, you may be able to carry him
for a while. You may hit a jolt where you can’t carry him any more. If he is there to make things better, it is
nice to have him around. If not, he needs to go to the mountain, to become
strong and powerful and amazing and then come back.
Q: He will do this and for 10-15 minutes
will be better, but then will revert.
A; Walk him to the front door. Thank him for
the nice 10-15 minutes. Like children with pots and pans, pulling out of
cupboards. Oops, you’ve slipped out of
awesomeness, lets walk you to the front porch. (This is much simpler to say
than it really is to do.)
Q: How do you deal with someone with low
self worth? In a situation just before this meeting. Asked him if he had prayed
and asked for peace. Response was, “you are accusing me of not speaking to God,
low self worth, you don’t love me, need me etc.” How do I deal with this?
A: Nurturing side of woman just wants
to scoop up and lift. But it should be as two oxen pulling same yoke, not one
constantly dragging. For patriarchal order to work properly, man should be
pulling and ready to carry burden. Many men get married too early, and aren’t
ready. Like young men who go on mission to fulfill duty, but are a worse
problem for mission president because they aren’t there for the right reason.
If
he isn’t pulling his weight, if you are crossing plains and man just sits on
rock and can’t go any more, this is a horrifying thought.
However,
you only need to say once a week at most, “you are strong and capable; go get
the help you need so you can pull this family.”
Most
are more motivated by fear than love – especially in family relations.
Primary
motive for action is fear. If woman is
across from man, taking care of him, he hasn’t lost anything. When she babies a
man, it will not strengthen or make him a man.
Mothering is for babies. Nurturing skills and behavior is very different
with husband than anyone else. Kissing and touching, bedroom experiences. You
only use for husband, and shouldn’t be using babying techniques.
A
man throws a kid in the lake, as father and says, I have confidence, I don’t
need to baby him through it, my child is strong and can do this. Throw your man
into the lake, “you are smart, and capable.”
If he comes back, “no I’m not,” you will have reinforced the behavior.
Women
may have to become a broken record, “I’m not a man trainer, not designed to
help you get this figured out. There are resources, bishops, other places for
you to get this figured out.”
Q: When he gets on this rampage, “you never
do anything for me,” what should I do?
A: Use these answers (above). Like a
broken record. It is not woman’s place to be constantly pulling man out of his
mess all of the time. This is not
healthy.
Q: How successful do you find men in MOM if
they aren’t journaling or keeping goals. Mine attends every week and does
everything outside of this, diet etc. but isn’t consistent with MOM journaling
or goal keeping.
A: Male psychology=efficiency mechanism.
Focused on finding the simplest and easiest way to accomplish a task. Farming,
communications, transportation - almost all of these types of inventions were
created by a man. Even in camping, just
need pocket knife and trash bag. Women
often call this mediocre, especially when dealing with excessively efficient
man, (least needed amount of dirt needed for a dam…opps, wasn’t enough, just
wiped out a town).
Journaling
and completing six daily squares are required to be completed everyday for 84
days to complete program. If he is
declaring he is successful, MOM has no problems with tattletales or wives. Let’s guess who’s mom/wife sent this
question in…other people often think it was theirs.
There
is some co-dependency mixed in for woman here.
Need
to do a weather check to determine personal safety.
Think
of medieval times. He should be out fighting dragons and building moats. How come it seems there is so much distance
between your wife? Have you considered you haven’t built enough safety for your
wife. “I can’t make you do anything, or force you to do anything, but as long
as you aren’t doing what you need to do to keep yourself safe, I have to build
bigger walls to keep myself safe.”
Woman can’t let herself be in situation where she is not safe. “I’m not
in charge of you, but if you aren’t taking that role of keeping me safe, then I
will have to make myself safe.”
Q: Would you recommend MOM program if man
has already had 6 months recovery?
A: Yes would recommend because it prepares
them for things that may come up in the future. Hopefully with recovery, he
wouldn’t mind paying that the first 3 months as it pays for the Worth group.
Yes, recommend for any man who wants to be skilled in protecting his family.
Q: Looking for feedback on my situation.
Separated since May of 2015. He struggled for last 20 years with porn. Caught
masturbating, porn on phone, tv, magazines, dvds, had year affair. We had counseling, decided to try and make
it work. Went to Lifestar – H was still in the affair at the time. He hasn’t
been “in” marriage last 5-6 years. Lifetime members of church, sealed in
temple. Active in church. Presently separated. He is renting apartment in same
town. He says he isn’t ready for divorce yet, but not doing anything to work
recovery or porn. Very disrespectful. Has no emotional connection. Set boundary
saying not prepared to continue in marriage if you aren’t willing to get help.
You can’t white knuckle it, so without professional help, we need to end
marriage. We can go several days without speaking. Continuing with Lifestar,
and ARP – combined men and women group. Wife stopped attending once found Worth
group.
A: Because women are rarely excited to
jump out of frying pan into the fire, whether or not you stay married, unless
there is danger to finances or in other way, pushing to divorce or not, is not
usually first priority. Encourage women to function as if going through single
woman direction, based on your values. We call this packing your wagon – such
as putting money away, but getting self ready for long haul in right direction.
This includes clarifying what types of interactions you want to have in the
future.
Clarify
how you would want a man to treat your daughter. Clarify lifestyle and environment that needs to be present in
your lifestyle.
Write
a handbook of instruction for young adult daughters. How to move forward. What
expectations you demand of him. If he
behaves outside of expectations, you move on without him.
He
will either discover pain of being alone, where when out by self on rock, the
Holy Ghost can ask him, “dude, what are you doing? you are going to be left
behind!”
Don’t
nurture a guy through it.
If
a man is declaring he wants the relationship to be fixed, he should begin a
courtship process. He isn’t dealing with the same young woman from the
beginning of the marriage. He is competing with all other men out there for you
now. Do you really think that you are the best man out there for her? If you
get your act together are you the best man that she ever met? Are you
sufficiently impressing her?
Q: RE: Boundaries vs. punishments when
husbands aren’t doing what we need them to do.
A: Never let man’s description of your
behavior describe what you are doing. Just because he doesn’t like it, it
doesn’t mean that it is punishment. Are your actions with the intent to punish?
If so, stop it!
Struggle
with the word boundary – the environmental conditions you are willing to live
in. A description of “I cannot live with a man who behaves like this”.
If
you live in Ut. you can live with some snow, cold, etc. But how do you live in
Ok. with tornados that rip houses off of foundations? If you live in a place with lots of tsunamis etc. recommend that
you move.
Some
of these men are not skilled enough to change themselves in quick ways.
If
you NEED them to do it, you are being dependent. If your life falls apart if he
doesn’t, you are being CO-Dependent.
If
man is not behaving like a husband, then you do not need to behave like a wife.
He
should be leading relationship dynamic, and you should respond well if he is.
Like 14 year old girl at dance when a boy asks her to dance. If he has an act of courage that is healthy
and strong, then you can encourage him through nurturing. But you don’t leave
relationship by pulling him out of the mud because he is having a bad day.
Use
IF/THEN statements. If you aren’t ready
to behave appropriately, THEN I need to….
Please
avoid long conversations which you start.
It shows you how invested he is in the conversation. Sometimes you have
to move to the promised land without him.
You
can’t make a man treat you well. You know exactly what you would tell a
girlfriend or daughter.
If
a boy stopped coming up to her and talking to her, you wouldn’t wait for him to
give you the time of day. It isn’t good for woman psychologically to wait for a
man to talk to them/give them the time of day.
Q: Can you clarify boundaries, vs. pain and being left behind as
motivation.
A; It is challenging to let go of the hope
that a guy is going to get it. Please
don’t set yourself up (I can’t do that because it will….). Please choose
behavior based on true principles, not whether or not he likes it. You may be burned at the stake, or nails
hammered in hands. If going to stand for principles, it doesn’t mean you did it
wrong just because someone else may not like it.
That
which is good for woman, incidentally is good for the man. Intent is not to
have effect for man. We do it because
it is the best for you.
Think
about training daughters again. Want them to lock down confidence and
affections.
Want
you to have back up plan that will bring happiness, confidence and success
incase guys go through hiccup in developmental stage. You wouldn’t train daughter to behave like this so that it will
do xxx to the boys.
Make
plan based on integrity, strength, and direction so that she can enjoy her
future regardless if others rise up around her or not.
Q: Men of Moroni program vs. text
coaching. Which recommended first. Or is text coaching with Marriage repair
more helpful?
A: Text coaching is like a retainer – not
the braces. Braces are MOM. The repair workshop is for marriage repair.
Text coaching is for self-mastery.
Anything for marriage repair is dealt with on therapeutic level.
Coaches
and mentors help fine tune individual, and express compassion and encouragement,
but not to deal with therapeutically.
A: Maurice is most expensive way to
train a man – working with Maurice and text coaching that should be fine. Text coaching is usually after 6-12 weeks of
training with the MOM program.
A: One of fastest ways to learn is to be
put into situation with more stewardship, where they must learn and turn.
Q: How effective do you feel email group
is?
A: Least attended to, haven’t spent as
much time making sure it is top quality. More confident in text coaching. Clarify whether SLACK group – a group
texting program that should be used in conjunction with or as retrainer with
other program.
Q: How exactly does this work? When does
it heal? The answers that I get, are, “Be patient”. (Referring to my healing.)
A: I’ve had long extensive conversations
with God about His healing preferences. In New Testament, sometimes Jesus just
heals them, and they walk away with no more pain, but someone around corner is
still in pain and not healed.
Clinicians are like surgeons, but not Gods. They can sew someone up, but
not provide the healing. The healing
comes from God. This will be between
you and God.
Q: H will send texts to me that he will be
saying he is worthless, not good at anything, no friends, everyone would be better
off without me. In past I’ve said sorry
you are feeling bad, can we talk about later in person? He won’t do that. When
I’m having hard time he will do that, don’t know if that is manipulative. Because I don’t rescue and jump anymore, he
has decided I don’t care. Should I be doing different things?
A: This is common. If a man has a history
of porn use, a possible side effect is that brain needs something outside of
self to lift spirits.
If
a teenage boy has bad day and turns to porn to lift spirits, his brain
documents that something outside is needed.
Then this may expand his thinking that women are needed to lift spirits.
This can turn into psychological pattern that someone needs to lift him from
his mire. Sometimes girls nurturing
instincts will trigger in and she will try to help him out, thus reinforcing.
His brain may document that this is how it should be. So when he has an empty spot in brain, instead of going and being
productive to feel better, he is waiting for someone to do what in their
paradigm they believe they need.
Wheel
thrown pottery as referenced in I’m Not Okay. In order for pottery to work, one
hand has to be anchored. I was creating
wobbling effect. If woman reacts to man, he reacts to woman ….. one of the two
has to anchor self to true principles, not to the needs of other person. If
hoping for patriarchal relationship, then HE should anchor on Jesus Christ as
his anchor, not the woman being his anchor.
He
should have been on mission learning to rely on self with God, if didn’t learn
this prior to marriage, please don’t get in way of this by being his savior
now. Share, “It is my understanding that there is a Savior and prophet, and
bishop and stack of scriptures and prayer that will save you. Go spend time
with God until you get the revelations needed for you to lead our family. I am woman and mother, and I don’t have
training or knowledge to train you how to be a man” with him.
Q: Is this heartless?
A: No, not at all.
Q: Others have stepped in and said yes,
you have been heartless.
A: Were they qualified? - Maybe not.
Q: He is doing same thing to kids. Where
is the line? Withdraws emotionally. Waiting to see if anyone will call. Kids don’t call. Guilts kids into spending
time with him. Feel it is cruel and manipulative.
A: Role as mother is: When it comes to the
children, they and you need to be reminded that children have been going
through difficult things all throughout history. Just because hard doesn’t mean
you should be apologetic. When crossing plains, it will be hard on kids, and
painful. If sorry for this, you aren’t reminding them of why we are committed
to true principles.
We
are sorry your father is not behaving like a patriarch. Children you are not dad’s savior, nor am I,
so we practice letting God do his job.
Kids have a lot of work on their own to do. Kids can’t raise a parent correctly.
It
isn’t going to hurt kids to do it wrong sometimes. Kids will watch mother anchor self with God. Don’t worry too much if they do it wrong for
a while. If children of pioneer woman
can cross plains and have toes chopped off due to frostbite, then they still
have the same resilience that they had back then. Never underestimate
children’s resilience. Look how well
you are doing despite your parent’s screw ups.
Children can be smart too, especially if one of the parents is pulling
self up and through it.
Q: How do recommend kids respond to
someone (Father in Law) who is being manipulative etc.
A: Therapists sometimes have people who
call more than have time for.
Maintain
your psychological balance. So that when you are there, you are behaving in a
grounded way. You cannot attempt to replace divine power. When God was reminding me of my place…when I
get a text, and have a window, I have to check, “do I have extra within me to
serve and give?” if not, when I push the red button, then it sends ministering
angels when I’m not available. God will still do his job, if Maurice isn’t
available. So, if parent, client, sibling,
child, someone is asking more of you, then stop serving them and let God do his
work.
Q: So we’ve been healing and H is
overcoming addiction. He is starting to feel he needs to reach out more. Part
of it is nurturing, but still has issues.
A: As we get act together, we have
cravings to nurture, but have to be able to do some without it ever being
enough. We give surplus when we have to give. He has lots of gifts from God,
and have more to give back. Some women
here, have healed a long way. Don’t hold back just because you are trying to
prove a point. It is your responsibility to give when you have surplus.
Q: As parent child relationship is it our
place to call out on improper behavior, and address because whiney etc.
A: Address in terms of how it affects
your family directly. Don’t teach they need to be better person, just protect
your family dynamics.
Q: What kind of responsibility do wives
have to teach husband good behavior or correct principles when bad behavior is
driving us crazy? What are we allowed to do? What is effective? What is useful
to change Husband’s behavior?
A: Assuming you feel you need to teach
him. “If you don’t have the spirit,
don’t teach”. DC 50 says both speaker and listener must have spirit or learning
and teaching will not take place.
Tetris
communication - (refer to old game of
tetris), which is similar to how communication works. For something to stick inside someone’s brain, one of greatest
phenomenon that happens, when someone in conference speaks, it was exactly what
each person was looking for. What someone hears is different than what was
being taught. Completely misquoted.
Words are twisted all of the time by spirit for benefit and
improvement.
Words
come out of Maurice’s mouth, then twist and flip to fit right into listener’s
brain. If not listening correctly, it will not stick – no matter how many times
you say it.
Your
job, if you want to teach is to have spirit before you open your mouth.
A
student will not learn until the student is ready to learn. Eyes to see will
see, Ears to hear, will hear.
If
your spouse isn’t getting it, think about Christ when people didn’t hear, or
getting, or taking seriously, or comprehending what he was trying to
teach. It didn’t matter if people
understood him – not co-dependent as He continued life plan regardless of if
they listened or learned what he was teaching.
Often
for her to function completely and correctly, she feels like he needs to get
it.
Going
back to pioneer woman mode, please consult with women who were crossing plains
whose husbands were on missions or in battalion.
Do
not underestimate your ability to function without the help of a man.
A
woman said I don’t know if I can. Said it would be awkward. Asked her, didn’t women crossing the plains
call out to each other for help and encouragement?
Q: I shouldn’t say anything unless directed
by spirit, and he is ready to listen.
A: Then he is dead weight, and not taking
seriously. Friendly roommate, or get him out of the way.
Q: When a man hates me and I get phone
call – most first sessions with men, is a man yelling at me when wife took my
counsel. Let man call me and chew me out. Love it.
Q: Struggling with H who is trying.
Been waiting all of this time for him to repair and report. Now this stinks for
me. I’m not happy. I’ve been waiting for repair that I’ve wanted for so long.
There’s too much. He is helpful and kind a bit then it turns into a fiasco.
Instead of being happy that he is now trying, I think it is safe, and I open
up, and everything is back in there, and I’m reliving it. Is this triggering?
Confused because I’ve been waiting for a long time for this, and it
stinks.
A: This situation has been very good and
painful – like a roller coaster, like a ticking time bomb, not knowing when it
will blow up again. Only way to get
through some things is to talk through. He can help around the house, but not
ready to talk.
SO if a guy has been rock climbing behind you, resist
temptation to shift weight to him. Keep
weight with God, rather than when H does it wrong, you don’t fall ½ way back
down again. To get through this stuff, you need the daily rituals that enable
you to do the whole thing by yourself incase man never comes back. Inter dependent experiences. Go back to foundation that it is just
between you and God. Unless he is making it worse, and you have to say no thank
you.
They
may bring wood to your fire, drop it on fire, and the embers may light your
wagon on fire – when he was just trying to be helpful.
Q: When he is here and seems to be
helpful, should I not bring up past hurts?
A: Think about like walking out on a sheet
of ice. Check before you walk all the way out. Do a weather check. Don’t engage
in full psychological conversation of intimacy if he isn’t ready or there.
Don’t put yourself into danger if guy isn’t ready for it. Check before you invest. You are aware of fairness, and what is
appropriate. Just because he SHOULD, doesn’t mean he WILL.
Sometimes
watching to see if his wood might splash coals on fire, is harder than having
him bring wood to your fire.
Q: What do you do if they blame you for not being open
to them and share your thoughts/feelings etc.?
A: This celestial orientation mechanism in
your brain leads you to want to believe that anything anyone says is worth
listening to and taking seriously.
Because
you want your marriages to be celestial, you are taking him seriously when you
should not. If he is blaming you for this, then he doesn’t understand how a
relationship should work. If he drops bombs on you, then wants you to be there
for him, and open, then he doesn’t get it.
Explaining something to someone who isn’t ready to receive it, it isn’t
going to stick. Even Jesus knew to walk
away until they figure it out themselves. If you are going to survive these
situations you have to be good at your own, prayer, writing and reading so that
your behavior is based on true principles.
Please
spend as much time as you possibly can, studying material of people who have
spent a lot of time studying this information and principles.
Be
careful how much you consult outside sources, because they are biased. Use
prayers, reading, writing, listening to prophets.
Writing
is one of best ways to clarify your own mindsets so that you catch your crazy
mindsets before anyone else does. Get it on paper, so you can see if you are
being brilliant or a crazy chick today.
In
so much pain and agony for you. Grateful for the ladies on FB when you swoop in
and help out. This is huge gift to each other.
Upcoming
is a women’s marriage repair shop, $20 per session – it will be on Mondays at
11:00 am. Focused on helping fix
marriage if in a place where it can be fixed.
Not healing or personal stabilization.
Not starting til Feb. 22nd.
Make sure structure ready to go.
More information forthcoming.
This
is tough planet. You’ve had endurance built inside of you. Don’t let behaviors
of men mess you up.