Healing With Worth : Q&A with Maurice Harker 12/28/15

Q: Definition. H started addiction as youth. 47 years now. Been in recovery for 12 mo. Wondering about exposure – What are other causes of addiction? Nothing traumatic in his childhood with exception of second grade was held back. Curious, is this something that keeps him in addiction years later, or not related at all? What’s going on?

(Clarification of recovery as No lost battles? Basis of ‘Worth of Soul’ book & church programs.) Good Bishop with lots of contact, reading everything constantly, and going to ARP weekly meetings without fail. Could see in behavior - became kind, loving, helpful, very different. When got to 13 months, everything fell off cliff. Had been to Bishop’s council, decided no disciplinary council, and everything then fell apart. Wondering about potential to be in recovery. Would childhood experience be enough to fuel this addiction? Would therapy be helpful?

Yes, therapy with qualified counselor would be helpful.
Anything – abuse, trauma could relate to addiction.
Teenagers may be ones who may not have complicating issues. Some of them are able to work through addiction because it is just learning and understanding their sexuality, vs. extenuating circumstances/childhood trauma.
Men have tendency to prove they don’t need help, and can do things on their own – especially when feeling low on confidence or weak. Satan tells them a sign of weakness is to need a therapist.
Recommends do homework on a counselor who he could work well with, has skill and right values. LCS has about 20 therapists who are also skilled in many areas of country. LDS family services may have good counselors also.
Yes, life experiences can complicate things, but Maurice has yet to encounter life experiences, which can’t be overcome.
Recommended reading from Maurice’s, an article addressing Elder Oak’s article on addiction. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CqRdKy8OMET9JoNje2FN9cSAohk4sH1RbYYnpCNtovY/edit

Definition of Addiction: A person values certain behavioral patterns, ie. masturbation, and after several commitments (to self and others) can’t keep commitments to stay away from these patterns. If they claim to not be an addict, but do because hobby or habit, Maurice holds a higher expectation to clean up their act more quickly than those with addictions.

Q: Heard that in healthy man, an intimate sexual relationship helps them to feel like everything is okay with spouse and relationship. Know this isn’t case with addict. Is this a true statement?

If a man is following 3 main principles behind ‘The Family a proclamation to the World’, in that he is working to improve his providing, presiding, and protecting, it is a natural response of woman without major trauma to respond in nurturing manner.
Remember that the reason the man is improving 3 P’s is because he is already that type of guy, and that is how he functions. A healthy man also plans to get better at the 3 P’s each day. He has done well for the day and expects to do better the next day. A healthy man doesn’t need someone else to expect him to improve, because he plans on working hard the next day to be even be better.
Unfortunately, an unhealthy man may think, ‘I’ve had sex and no longer need to work on anything.’ Some men stagnate or get worse, regressing after sexual experiences, becoming mean, distant, or aloof.
He should be able to stop for 3 seconds, touch forehead with wife in the morning and say, “I like being with you, but I need to go make money for our family.” He doesn’t just abandon her and run away.

Q: Follow up: If healthy man comes to her, and she’s tired and they aren’t intimate. If he then says, ‘when we aren’t intimate, we aren’t connected.’

A healthy man doesn’t ask wife to do something, especially when she is burned out or overwhelmed. If children are in difficult circumstances, mother ill, she is multi-tasking.
Every time a man does something to provide, preside, protect, she automatically thinks about spending more time with him.
Ladies, take care because some women become very occupied with their own task list and it can get in the way.
If she is paying attention, and not dealing with trauma, she will have a nurturing response, which will lead to sexual interaction.
In most healthy situations, the man doesn’t bring up sex, and usually the woman looks for ways to encourage and empower him.
If a man says he isn’t okay because his wife isn’t in bedroom with him, he’s unhealthy (and he’d better duck as Maurice wants to hit him with brick.)
A man will have more and better sex when he stops thinking about it.

Follow up Q: about gift sex

When you can tell your man is investing a lot of effort in 3 P’s and your body is just not going there, you have other things on mind, and sex isn’t going to ruin your day, scare, or hurt you.
You can put it in back of your head, like a guy would put his ‘to-do’ list – ie. taking out the trash, or things he doesn’t necessarily want or love to do, but will do because he recognizes that they will empower and energize his wife, and give her hope and confidence, and stimulate a positive dynamic.
Gift sex isn’t to fix something that is broken. It is her idea before he brings it up, just to keep wheels rolling. Don’t even try if feeling scared, hurt, or experiencing any trauma sensations - stop immediately. There’s no obligation even if it is half way. Some men will say you can’t start and stop part way - that’s a lie.
Proper care and feeding of Husband is a great guide if husband is healthy. If unhealthy, it may cause you feel like a cruddy wife.

Clarification of “Being in the mood and gift sex” by Jennifer:

When you are feeling secure, safe, and that you can attach, and that he can be there with you in the moment. This will feel good and right to you. This isn’t to say that in 10 minutes he may be off his game, not nice, or start again with previous misbehaviors. It isn’t doing something wrong to be intimate with him. In those moments you felt like it was right – you don’t need to analyze later – honor your emotions, if you feel connected and right in the moment.
If spiritually and emotionally connected, more inclined towards intimacy.
No one ever dies from not having sex.
Be sure to be honest and true and authentic to self and keep yourself safe.
Being authentic and honoring self goes along those lines of being “in mood.”

Q: Doing in house separation, feel I should never be intimate with him. There are moments when I feel it is okay.

Never make decisions based on what it will do for his development. Don’t make decisions about what may stunt or affect his growth.
If you do your part correctly – the divine process will run its course.
Anytime you are intimate, you are at risk of being vulnerable or hurt. Recognize that you may need to be in Pioneer Woman mode, and whatever you do, maintain your spiritual and emotional integrity and go from there.
Of course the safest thing to do is never risk, but you don’t get anywhere if you never risk.

Q: When I’m ovulating and my body wants to procreate, and he is being mean and my hormones are so strong, sometimes in spite of how he is treating me, my body wants to be intimate.

Sexual response to libido is very broad, some high, some low.
Currently working with a woman who has high response, and this keeps her in a difficult place.
Just because you are having sexual trigger, doesn’t mean it is time to act upon. Need to discipline self.
If woman wants to receive gift sex herself, she should probably review with therapist in smaller group.

Q: Husband affair, trying to work out. Feels wifely duty, to have some sort of sexual experience with him. How long does it take to get back, and what can I do to help bring that back?

Sadly, this story is not new to us.
Fully withdrawn response is very normal - as I can’t be close, the betrayal trauma is horrifying and causes memories and questioning all of history together.
Good news is that it is only 7 years, not 21 years. He’s at place to figure this out.
Get rid of obligation to have sexual relations with him. Does him no harm to not have sex. He won’t go off and be worse, or do inappropriate things.
Doesn’t need marriage therapy, needs individual work, and man training to make sure behaviors don’t become long-term part of life. Men of Moroni is men’s training program Call 877-HERO-877.
Man training relieves wife of burden of being sure he is getting through his issues. It is men training men. “Just say, please do for me, so I can feel more comfortable.”
A woman’s body is programmed to want intimate contact with a man (her own man), just as animals have natural draws (salmon swimming upstream).
It usually takes about 4-6 months before it starts to flicker, and can take longer if he is resistant to repair and improvement. The more open he is to repair and improvement, the quicker she will respond.

Q: D-Day happened 3 months ago. At beginning had to push for him to get help which he did (for her.) He started Men of Moroni 10 days ago. She feels a hyper vigilance.

One of his biggest problems was having sexual fantasies about peers, everyday people. Feels that in public, “oh no, can’t look.” Constantly fighting thoughts – makes me feel so uncomfortable and insecure in marriage. Is this hyper vigilance we both feel a normal part of recovery? Is part just being a man, am I over reacting, is this part of recovery? Can we be in public without me worrying about his thoughts?

Because men can be confused by what can be hurtful to their wives, they generally follow the rule, if it doesn’t hurt her, I don’t need to change it. They define thoughts and fantasies as safe entertainment, and allow them.
It is more dangerous and scary that may be thought, and can lead to a threat to their wife or marriage.
Maurice served a mission in Detroit, and in the last 2 months he was more scared than the first two months because had more of an awareness, understanding the dangers that he had naively not understood at the beginning of mission.
When a new soldier is running scared through forest, he runs with abandon in contrast to a skilled veteran soldier who has high speed/accurate responses to situations. Once a man has learned high speed/accurate responses to situations, he can have one arm around his wife, in full date mode, while with the other arm he is using swords, weapons, and samurai skills to knock off anything that will threaten the marriage. Because he has those superhero skills he can do them together at the same time. Similar to someone who can play piano and carry on conversation at the same time. A soldier can get to this same point, fighting his war.
She is in ‘scared, I’m not sure I can win this battle stage.’ For a woman, it lasts a little longer because she is walking behind the soldier in the forest and not sure how he is going to react.
If man is really on his game, or in the zone, a woman knows it - she can feel it, and knows it has no effect on his brain. Man’s brain is not a victim of environment – it can be trained to handle attacks just fine. If naked woman walks up, a trained man can handle it, and a woman can usually tell when he is on his game, or ready to do something stupid.

Q Followup : Feeling so unsettled because he isn’t in the zone

He hasn’t been in training long enough to feel confidence.
It comes between a month and two years. In this case, he is educated and motivated and he is attending to it.
To deal with fear based sensations in public, you can create a gesture – a hand squeeze etc. Doesn’t matter if it is logical or not, just that it communicates “I’m having a fearful moment”. He can then recognize that his wife just signaled her fear, (give him 20 seconds to get head back in game and demonstrate you are higher priority for him) before you panic.
If your 17-year-old daughter is on a date, and her date can’t get his head off of another girl, what would you tell her to do? Leave. Go call a cab, or a friend, but leave him and the situation.

Q: After D-Day felt more drawn to him – needed the bonding. Now moved into not wanting any intimacy. Don’t know why moved from needed it, to unsafe – thoughts come, betrayal, how do I know it is me?

It is not uncommon that some women get hyper sexual after d-day because they want re-assurance. You are now going through phase where his behavioral patterns need to give you something convincing so that you can relax again.

The following is almost impossible, but here’s the ideal:

You want to maintain spiritual and emotional integrity, and if in moment you’ve checked and there’s consistent response and you feel inclined to, then you signal and gesture that you want to go there.
For your sanity you must abandon ship if it becomes traumatic.
If eyes are closed too much, it can become traumatic in your head because of fears of future or the past, and you can’t let what you are afraid he will do, or has done mess up moment. Likewise, him imagining something outside the bedroom can mess things up.
There’s a perfect art of being in the moment. As long as he is working to stay present and doesn’t turn you into an object (every woman can tell when she is sex toy not a wife) – if he is treating you as wife and you are safe, then allow to continue. If you become an object pull away with whatever speed feels fine.
If you have a husband who is trying to be a good husband, your signals should be sufficient and you should be able to pull closer or push away. Hopefully you never have to shove away.
A man in recovery or training will be understanding. He may have to chill out and reel it in, and recover and prioritize you. If he is mad and blaming, then he probably has addiction, and hasn’t recovered from it sufficiently. Okay if he has to cool off, clear head, but not if aggravated and mean.
Monitor the situation as you go, and have eyes open, fingertips awake (not physical eyes – don’t shut down or disengage).
Your safety is very relative at this moment. You don’t have to go all the way for yourself – can be agonizing for self if trying to relax that far, and maintain distance.
Trust yourself. Yes, you may get it wrong sometimes. Understand that you haven’t ruined or messed up. It is no different than learning a new song on a musical instrument. It takes quite some time before you get it perfect.

Participant input: When fear is getting in way wondering where he is at, stop and say, “say my name”, or, “can you tell me some non-physical things you like about me?” These help remind me that it isn’t just physical – and help bring him back. He comes up with responses pretty quickly, but couldn’t if he were lusting about other women.

Response – Even a man who is pretty far-gone can figure this stuff out. 6 months ago, when this participant’s husband wasn’t able to get it right she said “no thank you.” 9 months ago he really had some aggravation and irritation in these moments. With hard work from both parties it is possible.

Q: H did a check in a few days ago. Told that really struggling last week because watched a tv show. 2 female characters kissed – he reacted that he couldn’t watch the show anymore because of this. His check in was that this keeps popping back in his head. He has done warrior chemistry but doesn’t feel like it is working. He feels he is doing what he can. Wife’s response, ‘sounds like you are white knuckling.’ He doesn’t know what to do to be better. Her response – study more. Wondering does same thought that he uses for warrior chemistry work for a long time or does he need to switch it out?

There are so many opportunities for things like that to happen.
Be careful and stay in student not mother mode.
When reviewing lost battle, he can gain discernment training when studying the scenario and determining when/where he could have changed the situation.
Music in a show, usually leads to the action. He could also look at how long were women flirting together…and could have determined days or weeks prior to seeing this that this is where it was leading, or that it wouldn’t be appropriate.
Don’t want to do this as his mother as he will pick a place where you don’t think it should be.
Find a trusted therapist to do discernment training.

Q Follow up: He is not meeting with MOM, or training due to finances. He is reading book and asking questions.

LCS is constantly trying to find less expensive ways to help people.
Have him look into a personal warrior trainer – this program is set to meet people with different budgets, maybe meeting 2 x a month, not 4 times.
Husband needs to be trained by a man. If he says he can’t afford it, stop going out to dinner, or go find some off job to make extra $50, shoveling walks, mowing lawns – he needs to be creative and figure it out.

Warrior chemistry idea is a beginning tool to use.

Deviant sexual chemistry can be attached to word passion. Scriptures say bridle passions – not kill them.
Men’s sexual drive is an intense drive that helps them be better providers, builders, and protectors. To do a man’s job, they need to have intense power.
Satan is afraid of man who knows how to use his passion power correctly. Passion projects use sexual energy to do good things beyond their natural ability. They are superhuman, powerful things, things that are usually a serious threat to Satan.
If Maurice has an inappropriate memory/ thought, he chooses to punish Satan and use super powers to make world better place.
Last time this happened, Maurice wrote a great article, published it on a blog, and 25,000 people saw it. Satan shouldn’t mess with him.
Have list of passion things he can do to punish Satan and benefit man and God. Every time he is tempted, he should empty dishwasher or do something greater, responding ferociously.

Maurice addressed Satanic attacks on women:

This is a very difficult subject, and asks for spirit to be present while talking about this. His heart is very deeply attached to what women are going through.

One of the attacks women are experiencing is that Satan is rubbing it in, rubbing it in, and pushing for panic and fear and anything a terrorist would push for. A freezing up, such as

9-11’s purpose was to crush functioning.

Ladies you have vital, spiritual gifts, needed on this planet for it to function. You need to have clarity, strength of character, diligence, and persistence. There are specific things you bring to table, and you need to be in your best position.

There are intense communication patterns, loudness, cruelty, intensity, which are the opposite of what is classified as ‘ladylike.’

You have a right to be scared, concerned, hurt. However, just as you expect it in a man, you are expected to maintain the spirit, no matter how difficult this may be.

When you lose the spirit, it does not benefit anyone.

There is never a time when you should allow your pain, fear, or torment to allow you to lose the spirit.

Some women get into ‘raging banshee with battle-ax mode.’

Some women have found selves in legitimate circumstances. If a person in the relationship is still unsafe, scary, unpredictable, and you aren’t sure of your safety, it is unwise to try and change behavior with strong or intense language. It is advisable to remember pioneer woman mode/capabilities and withdraw – this may mean inches, miles, or divorce.

I do not promote divorce, but one of my saddest experiences is to meet men who aren’t fixing issues, and threaten the safety of their wives.

Yes, there are times when it is appropriate for safety and sanity to not be married to a guy.

Video your own interactions, and recognize that any behavior that couldn’t be used as video training for your daughter is not good. Ask yourself if you would use your behavior as training tool for your own daughters. Practice your own training until you get to point when you can do this.

I’m very sad for you, and agonize with you. You don’t deserve to be here. You set standards, worked hard, and found yourself in a situation that you don’t deserve, and it isn’t your fault. No one provided training on how to handle these situations.

If you are new here, or if D-Day was less than 6 months ago, you WILL have strong feelings and handle it wrong. However, this doesn’t give license.

Commit to having your own strength, skills, fortitude, and to have a classy and elegant response to difficult situations. In this you will feel confidence and pride and without embarrassment you can stand in front of God and in front of the mirror.

As the Women of Worth that this organization helps – thank you for the quotes that are posted that enhance this mentality. Please work to solidify and maintain integrity.

Q: In response to previous address, - another outlet for anger and pain?

A: Burning parties. Throwing eggs in bathtubs.

Participant: Shredded husband’s shirt he was wearing when going to meet other woman, then burned it. Throw flowers, sticks at tree, throw eggs in the shower, went up canyon and wrote on eggs what angry about, then throw at something using all might and power, participate in body combat.

A: As Maurice has watched her, has seen her moving forward. J

Q: How do keep from cussing them out when they are out of line?

One of most dangerous things you can get into as a wife, is shifting into mother mode, because you are stepping out of line.
If his behaviors are hurting or unsafe, then you need to step away.
If you feel a strong inclination to express something, ask “your behavior is scary, offensive - would you like to remove yourself or have me remove myself until you can fix it?”
Some guys won’t leave.
If he is willing to let you pack up and drive away, you may want to keep driving and not go back.
Jennifer is excellent resource for maintaining dignity. It is vital. Please refer to her, and learn for your own sake.

Q: Finding that being around in-laws is a huge trigger – seeing behaviors come up of how he interacts and how they interact. How do I step back and spend time with them but not totally separate and pull back – not fair to him or kids – how do I mitigate this?

Maurice has 8 brothers and whenever he would get together with brothers he would regress to adolescent of self. His wife has chosen not to join him in family gatherings. She has watched him go and return messed up, and it took him a while to not come back messed up.
As awareness, focus, and attention to it caused improvement over time, she has been able to relax.
Utilize simple positive assumptions and statements like, “I’m glad you are so smart and are going to figure out how to do family stuff without throwing me under the bus.”
It takes about a year for the guy to get good at this.

Q: Does living away shorten or lengthen this? Exposures are longer when you are there.

A: Maurice to give this Husband a more detailed training next time he sees him.

Participant: Recommends a book titled “Marriage Fitness.”

Discusses putting things in proper order. Suggests limiting contact with things (relationships) until healthy patterns can be established. Withdraw from interacting, until in healthy place.

Mormon or American culture encourages moving away for a few years to establish selves.
For a time Maurice only went to ¼ of family events. Painful for his mother, but his mom had to learn to deal with it, while he learned how to stabilize his marriage.
Fasting from distractions, even sexual fasts allow focus on other aspects of relationships.
Be careful in establishing priorities. If a husband’s behavior is such that he is danger to family, then the wife has to prioritize the kids over him. Based on circumstances, you have to figure out where to base loyalties. His focus should be God, wife, kids. Hers should be God, then husband/or kids depending on how healthy he is.

Q: H just came out with everything a few weeks ago, at beginning of everything. Last night he was on computer, she did history search and found more porn. He talked to bishop a few weeks ago, and was supposed to call and get counseling. Wondering do I put pins and passwords on everything and control it all? Tired and can’t physically take more. Married 17 years, 4 kids. Husband doesn’t think, and leaders don’t think he is addict, maybe only looked at it 12 times in last 17 years. Had a lot of trials from son almost dying, and other son sexually abusing daughter. Married previously having had same problems with past husband. Don’t want kids to lie, can’t handle it anymore.

Encourage a woman to have all safety measures on a computer. However to put in place because of husband, you’ll never be able to block a smart addict from porn.
We use term 3rd degree burn victim. She is hurt and in trauma – as in 3^rd degree burn. The behavior of the other person involved would be like someone walking by and brushing against her burn. Regardless of whether or not he is an addict, this man’s behavior (as he brushes against her) causes her extreme pain.
Some people put a man’s behavior on a scale of severity, not on a scale of her pain. Many don’t realize that sometimes just picking up a magazine, can send woman into full scale trauma.
It is a hope that every man and church leader would focus on the health, safety, and well being of woman.

Need to assess the level of damage or the woman’s pain level. Then solicit help of husband and bishop to train them to understand the damage in medical terms, and get them off of chart of severity vs. behaviors and move the focus to how painful it is from his misbehaviors, even if he says, “I only do it once a year.”
In Addict mode a man is upset that he has to change his behavior or conveniences so that he doesn’t cause her pain.
If he knows that porn in the home will cause damage – and allows or invites it in anyways, (especially based on history), and argues about how much pain is caused from it, it is recommended that you remove yourself from the situation.

· When the safety and psychological well being of a woman is threatened, it needs to be immediately addressed.

Q Follow up: Don’t know if in threatening situation, just know it hurts so bad, and even just sharing here, feel like gut is gashed open and shouldn’t feel this way. Feel guilty, and that maybe this isn’t as big as it is. Been listening to Jennifer for 4 weeks, know it is real, Butterflies and sick feelings inside. Hurts worse now, than in first marriage. Husband now using first husband as crutch.

Very important that you don’t minimize.
Physical body manifests emotional and psychological pain.
Sometimes others minimize the pain you are experiencing.
Jennifer and I reading you, recognize that your 3rd degree burns are real.
Don’t measure this pain by degree of pain by other husband.
Strongly encourage at least 1-3 sessions with Jennifer or myself. If you have found other therapist that’s great, we just want to help people.
You need help to get through this, and then decide how to best deal with husbands and church leaders.

Q Follow up: Husband knows how I feel. Is being kind and supportive. Wants to make right steps. Having this for 30 years, it is hard for him to take steps to healing and help us be whole again, what can I do as a wife to help him, (but not as a mother)?
A:

Very kind of you to want to help him.
Best thing you could do is to help him get enrolled with someone like Maurice to train him.
You are in no condition to help him get this worked out. Help him understand, “I can barely keep self moving in right direction, I can’t take care of you.”

Q Follow up: He didn’t come forth in this situation, but definitely has said yes he wants to do it, but feels that should be marriage counseling not individual counseling.

Do what you can to get one session with both with Maurice at least once to do a thorough assessment.