How do I deal with lying? a few months into recovery. H has
been lying for 40 days. What do I do about lying? Consequence system..relapse,
1 relapse one day, 2 days… Clarification of consequence system.
A: Words from addict’s mouth likely to be untruthful, or
misrepresentation of truth. Verbal misrepresentation of truth or withholding of
truth are more useful terms to use.
Most important thing to do it help women remember that they
have very acute sensor system akin to lie detector. Not good investment of
energy to trust words. It is rewarding when their words align with someone’s
words. Ping comes from sonar with
boats.. When ask a question or have conversation, don’t rely on words. Your
intent of words sends out signal – watch response more than you listen to
words. “Any problems lately?” “No”
because his definition has changed.
Maruice’s favorite technique is when you are ready to ask a question,
and sense something is off. Get close
to proximity, hand on chest, look through eyes to back of skull, (customize as
needed), and ask question. Ask them not to answer with words, but tell that you
are going to read them. A woman in
presence of a man should read him. Statistically speaking, you are never safe
for extended period of time. There are
no guarantees that you will ever be safe. But in previous generations
(Lamanites & Nephites, black plague etc.) we are just joining generation
where there is no safety for your or your spouse.
Prepare self because you are only asking because you sense
something is wrong. Ask, I sense
something is wrong. Watch his reaction.
Man in good recovery responds: Quickly starting thinking about your
pain, than about your criticism or giving him benefit of doubt. If he is more aware of what your question
has done for him rather than what it is to you, then he is off. If he is just starting, it may take 5-10
seconds to shift from defensive to compassionate. If you come to conclusion that he is misrepresenting truth, don’t
try to nail him down right then. Your question will have triggered his fight,
flight or freeze mode. If you sense this, tell him “I look forward to having
all of the info that I need to function as your wife. Please go talk to your
man trainer (God, support etc) and make sure that I know everything I need to
know” If he is defensive or slippery, then he is in full addict mode, and
conversation is un-useful. Go into pioneer woman mode and friendly roommate
mode until he is ready to come back to you.
Withdraw to a safe distance. 5 feet or 5 miles. Ask him to go somewhere
else, walk, mountain, whatever needed to bond with God and get manliness
back. “Please don’t come back until you
do.”
What does it look like the distance between ourselves and
husbands. What do we do, how do we act? Do we sit by them? Hug? Talk to them?
Friendly roommate and not wife: How do roommates interact?
Kind, courteous, don’t spoon in bed, don’t make out, don’t snuggle on catch. Do
regular acts of kindness. You be a good
woman, rather than be a good wife. Be
how you would want daughters to be with roommates in college. Until he initiates improvement in
relationship. If you want relationship
on sure foundation, it needs to be started by him so that you can have true
patriarchal order. 30 days.
Husband is feeling a hole.
Im not okay, you’re not okay. When relationship has fallen apart, it has to be re-born, and has
to go through proper courting. Both
individuals should be fully functional prior to marriage. Man should have 100%
of his needs being met by God. When
woman is added, it should be with intent to make her life better, rather than
her making his life better. He should fulfill stewardship in preside provide
and protect. Purpose of marriage has
been falsely purported to meet each other’s needs.
Man is falsely under impression that man can’t function
without woman touching him.
Purpose of marriage (Marriage is not for Me by Seth Smith –
excellent book) recommend to buy and leave where husband can find it.
Q: Recovery for a year. But my radar has said I’m unsafe. He
is going through the motions, but it feels like he is using it to manipulate.
Best liar ever. Successful salesman.
A: When working with wives to get through. One piece of
woman’s recovery, is actual healing experience. Razor slid across a leather couch, and put on band aid, it won’t
heal. On skin, it will heal. Dr. isn’t
one who causes healing. Same with
therapists who can clean up and stitch up, and leave up to divine power to
heal. Some women take a long time. Born again change of heart experience with
men. For one to feel spirit tell that husband is on track and that it is
safe. Teachers/surgeons will prepare
his mind, but combination of his will with the power of atonement is up to him. Maintain distance, keep pioneer woman mode
on. You can use phrases – masculine
brain when it is close to addict mode is close to as you would be dealing with
a puppy. Warmer, warmer, warmer, or
colder, colder, colder. It doesn’t mean you’ve arrived. But if you pass him and
your sensory system tells you he is warmer, say it. If not, say colder. If he
responds with sensitivity and anger, then he is off.
It might take him a second (within 10), he should be able to
slip into compassion mode and think more about your pain than his. It looks like you need to do some work – go
figure it out.
What is Maurice’s experience? His history is not as
complicated as many of those who see him.
It has been 15 years since he has lost a battle. His self work is the
basis of his work. Had to work through defensiveness. She didn’t understand what she was experiencing, M. didn’t
understand what he was experiencing.
One of most important revelations she had. Sitting at table, and she was
scared he would go into unpleasant jerk mode. She was looking for right words
to explain words for what was wrong. She stopped and said, “what am I doing?”.
She stopped and gave me hardest and most edifying 10 sentences. I have forgotten about who you are. Smart,
hardworking, etc.
Go be you. Go figure it out with your relationship with God.
Go do it again, go get revelation. Difficult compliment, but what could he do?
Invite all to do this – positive conversations. She has a facial expression she uses so that
he knows when he is starting stupid conversations.
After 15 years of working on own recovery, finally figured
out how to collaborate with a woman.
Q: I think I have a hard time with prairie dodging.
A: If you choose behavior and reactions based on him, how he
is going to respond, then you are choosing behavior based on reaction, rather
than based on character. You can’t wait
for a guy to fix himself. Get yourself fixed rather than wait on him. Any situation that comes up, you want to be
true to yourself, and your response. In letters to your daughters (journal). If
a man is being kind to her, how should she respond? Useful when boys are still
developing, and girls cant rely on psychological stability because he is 17. Do
you tell daughter not to respond to boy because he will be stupid later? We
teach gracious, but teach that he may not be consistent. We teach, no, we are
women, and we love. Don’t withhold because of any affect it has on him, and
don’t give because of affect it has on him.
Give because you are a good woman and don’t give, because you are a good
woman. He neds to work with God to get
correct understanding of your behavior. He is smart, and he can figure it
out. Feel warm and safe when I come
around, or withdraw when I don’t feel safe.
A: Consequence system:
Two options – deal with, or divorce when misbehaviors. Worked to figure out simple and
understandable response to misbehavior.
Definition of lost battle in marriage is defined by a woman
and not by a man, because it is his actions that hurt the woman. Any behavior that is traumatizing – lying,
porn, masturbation, following a woman through Walmart while forgetting you are
with him etc. If he crosses a line the first time, withdraw to safe distance
for minimum of 24 hours.
Then he is invited to re-initiate the relationship. Do weather check, and see, did he finish his
process. How is he coming back to me? Returns with compassion, edification,
wanting to make woman’s life better.
This 24 hours should not include sharing the same bed or
sexual interactions.
Best place may be on floor right next to bed.
He was successfully able to be in tune with wife, because he
could tell she was crying.
Helps woman get into pioneer woman mode. Do not try to function as wife at that time.
Do not go to bed angry not in any scripture, and haven’t
heard in any conference talk. When it is late, and too exhausting…go to bed.
When he comes to you to begin process, then begin.
2nd lost battle (if it happens during time apart)
– a quality addict will blame on wife. As such, he is not ready to be a
husband.
2nd lost battle, now spend two more days
apart. Verbal abuse, and anything that
causes you pain (not like a stepped on foot during dancing due to clumsiness),
and hurtful (he probably won’t agree with your list). Ask, at what point would
you let your daughter’s husband do these things to her. If he says if she deserves it yes, then
divorce asap.
When inappropriate in front of children unacceptable too.
3rd lost battle, add on 3 days, 4th,
add 4 days. Once you get to 30 days in
a row, then marriage is very unhealthy and it may be time to consider divorce.
Man went through this, then two weeks before a new lost
battle. Don’t want to reset. Needs to
know what consequences are beforehand.
So, even if it has been 3 years, it will be 4 days next time. If he understands and can get a year of
success, then 4 days without you just to focus on himself and God, will be
welcome to clear head and figure it out.
They don’t know how to solve issues with themselves and
their wives. Women need time to realize
that she doesn’t need man around for her to be happy. This strengthens
relationship. (Maurice has never had a
couple get to 7 days because the relationship will blow up completely, and the
man will be MAD. It could end your
marriage, but it won’t be your fault).
Honey you need some time alone, to get your perspective, to clear your
head)
Q: Feel so angry and disgusted. Don’t care. Deep down, don’t
want anything to do with him. Told to get on this group, don’t even want to be
here, or think about his problems. Know I should have compassion, but don’t
feel it. How do you get through and
want to make it work?
A: Don’t even try to fix marriage in this phase. Many
husbands don’t like this either. Sometimes a man will actually have his issues
fixed before the woman is done healing. Sometimes the distance is not for him.
Sometimes it is for you. Communicate that listen, I’m not even making decisions
about this right now, not in a hurry to get a divorce. So we are going to slip
into friendly roommate mode, but until I can work through my stuff, I’m not
even going to work on our marriage. If
you have an issue of something that popped up, whether it is developmental or
self healing. He just needs to help her feel safe and secure so that she has
the necessary resources to go through this process. When man has mentality that he is needy.
Q: When do you start distance?
A: If he loses battle, start today. He has already started
recovery – that he has made decision and has desire to recover. It will speed his recovery during time away
to connect with God. If he uses this
time to be sad and angry, or comes back early, then pleasantly encourage him to
tap into his own recovery. Smiles,
hugs, bedroom is not part of his recovery, nor is his wife. You can enjoy time with him, but don’t
participate in his recovery other than encouraging him to use the resources
available to him.
How do you enjoy his company, but be distant? A: After.
If we are separated, it still affects his son because he
doesn’t see him. Him not seeing his son
should be a motivator to push him a lot longer. It isn’t going to damage the child to not see him. If the guy is improving, (during three days,
if sense he is improving) then send text, will you hurry up and finish your
three days so that I can make out with you?
Q: When everything is over, it has gone years. It seems like
the healing takes forever, and that. The atonement is supposed be able to heal
all of this when it is all over.
Sometimes people stay hurt. Isn’t that spitting on the atonement?
A: Most of us here are in the blood and guts here. We have
lots of couples who have done a glorious jobs of repairing things in their
homes. A woman can be healed without
the husband fixing anything, but she will have to be out of the situation.
Either emotionally or physically divorced.
If man gets good reputation for improvement, and shows signs - half as angry as previously etc. better in
compassion, etc. it is really cool.
Speaking with young men – thought first two years in
marriage would be best ever, but it isn’t…last two years best. Wife has 5-`0% caution. She has 10 things that she does ignores
family every day to do what she needs to do – self care. Never ever let relationship with husband
overcome relationship with God.
When husband’s primary source is God, he will figure it
out.
Feeling of getting it stuck – he is progressing, but why am
I not? To bring up in group.
When man is not showing signs of improvement, then wife has
to do a lot of withdrawal, and distance, and women often neglect themselves,
and recognize that we want responses to be beneficial to children – daughters
to see that they won’t tolerate being mistreated. “You being in my space is messing up my healing – you are causing
more pain than good, I need distance.
Will you be leaving bedroom or house, or will I?” If man says I’m not, you can, then that
tells you that he isn’t ready, and not interested in fixing things. This is telling moment in time. Start
packing – yes for children as well.
Just as pioneer women. Start
getting ready to go, and put together a plan.
If a possibility that your husband will let you leave, then prepare and
get ready. My need for space has nothing to do with your recovery. If he gets pushy, I need you to meet my
needs, interrupting my healing – then that’s not an option. How far away do you have to go? Lace with positive assumption. You are manly, you don’t need anyone.
Q: Feel guilty, told
it is her fault, doesn’t know what to do.
A: Refuse to be
abused. If he had decent training where
he went then he should rely on them. Never is his bad behavior the wives
fault. Would a parent let a child hurt
another over something? You can not
blame your bad behavior on me. On what I do, and what I don’t do. I’m not part of your recovery. Call and tell them that you can’t function
because I’m not letting you touch my girl parts.
Participation in sex is ONLY when woman wants to. Female system is developed to respond when
man is presiding, providing, and protecting.
When a man is doing these things correctly, it automatically triggers
that nurturing of a woman.
I have realized that I was not practicing true principles, I
was not handling our sex life in a proper manner. I don’t care what you do.
But I am going to use principles in my sex life. I invite you to figure out the correct way.
The recipe we’ve been using is not working. Do you really want a resistant,
traumatized woman in the bedroom? Celestial sex, emotional, psycho, spiritual,
verbal intimacy capstones with physical intimacy. You don’t have to make all of them overflowing. You will know when it is happening. You will
feel it. You will want to be intimate with him.
Not participating in sex because they want you to. There is no necessity for sex. It also
damages his brain when a man is with woman and a woman who doesn’t want to
participate –and there’s a name for that.
You may be tempted to be manipulative wenches. You should be
slapped if you are just messing around and becoming mean and strategically
trying to hurt someone else, then you need to withdraw and do some personal
work. You may be reactive – not how
you’d train your daughters to do it – calling names, swearing etc.. then you
need to withdraw so that you can do your own rewiring work.
Q: if you are using phrase, help my husband. Leading to not so useful question. The work
it takes to make sure you are improving and healing is a full time job. You
don’t have the background, wisdom, education to teach a man how to do his part.
It isuniversal principle. They are going to respect more if coming from another
man than if coming from you. ___ says, ‘if you are talking and your husband
isn’t taking you seriously, then stop talking.’ Man trainers can teach you why
there needs to be emotional and verbal intimacy prior to physical
intimacy. It needs to come from a man
trainer – they need to find it from someone else. Let him find his own therapist.
Q: Married for 5 years, found about addiction, horrible
divorce, remarriage after 10 years. Had idea that because he hadn’t looked at
it for a year, it would be easier. He
doesn’t look at it any more, but he looks around him often. Blames me if I
notice or bring it up, and says I falsely accuse him. Felt responsible in
marriage.
A: Analogy to answer: To improve own marriage. as a patriarch
I have my own gifts. My wife also has gifts to make marriage better. I am captain of ship. My wife is radar
person and she can see things that I cannot see. She senses things that I can’t
sense. M. torpedo guy, M. the one who kills enemy and is hero. Teaching men, radar person says coming up on
a coral reef… if I wanted info, I would ask you.
I don’t like you pointing out coral reefs, bad guys
etc. How bout then, that you go to her
and ask for any coral reefs? What do you see that can help me do my job
better? I see something coming up
around corner. He doesn’t believe, and runs boat into coral reef.
In M. career, avoid troubled relationships, wife – you need
to stop seeing that woman. My defensive
brain.. I’m professional, what do you know? After few minutes clearing head –
ask “Why?” her response – something wrong.
Average man says if you can’t explain it isn’t real. Richard G Scott has a talk about this. 4 years
ago. There are micro things woman can see that man can’t see.
What is happening, is that alarms are going off. The woman continued to text and call for a
year with no response from him. M.
didn’t have sensitivity to know that this was dangerous, but his wife did.
Husband should respond, how blessed to have wife to alert me
of potential danger. Thanks for helping
keep our family safe.
Role play with him.
Let’s practice you validating and respecting my alarm system.
Here’s what to say, and how to validate!
Q: Moved away from parents. Going home to visit. Every time
left husband in past, have slip ups. Not sure I want to go, but so worried that
he will slip up and back at ground zero.
My husband can’t win battles if I’m not here.
A: Technique from Karate Kid II. Mr. Miagi trying to teach concept that you don’t block punch, but
use momentum to advantage.
Husband, according to past history – when I am gone, you
lose battle. Lets use calendar and pick
out which days will be best for you to lose a battle. How long can you last while I’m gone? It will freak him out. On a
spiritual level it is bringing dark things to light. Placing it on the
table. A guy trying to lose a battle on
a schedule doesn’t work very well. If
you are going to lose a battle, you have to make it awesome. When a man is having an unhealthy sexual experience,
his dark side has to take over, it has to be on accident. When you plan it, it ruins it. By bringing it to the surface, and not
wondering about what bad thing is happening when gone, then we will bring out
calendar and talk about how great your experience was with this.
So freeing regardless if you there or not. I’ll set you up a porn station, with lotions
and whatever. It is on his plate, not
his. Removes excitement of it for him. Removed all blocks. It has been really
helpful because wanted to make sure. Make sure, with lots of anxiety. You can sense that a lost battle is in the
making, he starts to get weird.
I’m going to be gone, and can’t play games, why don’t you
just go get some supplies and make it really awesome, write it in your journal,
and tell everyone about it.
Moms do this with sons.
I’ll make sure you aren’t interrupted… tap on door…are you done yet? It
really ruins moment. Part of chemical
experience is the hiding and sneaking of it, about half of the chemicals are
now gone. This doesn’t mean you are
giving permission. 99% of the men don’t
want to have this problem and are also disgusted. Don’t remember it, but
chemically dependent on it. You must
like because you keep doing it. They
don’t enjoy it, not fun, but it takes over the brain. Value system doesn’t want to, but their animal brain does.
Motherly instead of wife like. Don’t mother a man through an addiction.
I married you because you are freaking awesome, so I want
you to have an amazing experience because you have control, or else I want it
to be amazing. If you are going to be
naughty then go all out. It’s not okay
with me, but make it great.
He will choose his behavior, and he can’t blame you.
You want to make sure that you like yourself when you choose
your behavior.
Dignified. Then
after having a stupid moment.
I’m going to check when you get back. Number of battles lost
when I get back, we won’t share bedroom.
Practice lying so you feel really good when I come back.
If you are perfect, and if you are awesome, its going to be
really fun when I get home.