Q: Husband
doing good job with recovery. In past when not doing recovery, would ask me to
work, (he has own business), would ask me to help. I would say “sure, I can
help.” But would eventually feel
overburdened with other things. He now encourages me to become PA or Dr. I have
6 kids at home. Feels like “Oh wow, I don’t want to do this.” Feel he is being
honest. It is crazy – I don’t know what to do, or how to discern where it is
coming from. In past has given me other
things to be distraction when he has been messing up.
A: Is he asking
you to do other things to make OUR life better, as he isn’t making enough to
meet our needs? He isn’t assessing whether it will make your life better or OUR
life better. He doesn’t know you
well. If he is working towards recovery
say, “My understanding is that as you recover you become more interested in
your wife’s brain and feelings, let me explain my actual values around
money. I would prefer less money and to
stay at home, (if that’s your priority list).
I am strong capable woman, if I need to make buffalo chip fires, and
feed shoe leather soup, husband I’m going to assume that as provider you are
working as hard and smart as can, and if so, I will make buffalo chips and shoe
leather soup work.”
A great tool to use is positive assumption – it helps them
to be completely honest. Pointing out
that you are assuming he is working as hard as he can with no laziness
affecting him helps him to be totally honest.
Yes, it is a bit of a psychology/mind game, but telling him directly he
is doing it wrong, isn’t necessarily best way to go about it.
Follow up discussion:
Q: He has to run
own office, and is doing it best he knows how – doesn’t do it all quite right.
He comes from point of view, wife will be happier when kids move out if she has
own career, but it is 10 years down the road.
A: In an
addict’s residual stage he doesn’t fully know or understand you. This is a good
time to give him an opportunity to get to know real thoughts and feelings on
the subject. If he is going to become a
good husband, he needs to learn to practice listening for things he doesn’t
already know.
Find out how much money there is to work with, and I’ll make
the best of it, you figure out your business along the way.
Q: D-Day in July. He has therapist, and is doing great. Since this time, went into deep depression,
and it was all about survival, and discovering childhood things. As the fog is
clearing for him, and I’m starting to catch my breath, I am now realizing
everything he did, and am now detaching. Before I was “here for you, your help
mate, we can do this” even though unfaithful, “so sorry about your
childhood”…now as it is coming to light and I have my own counselor, I don’t
want anything to do with him, and I’m detaching. Is this normal? What do I do?
He is looking at 3 mo. of good sobriety – he wonders why don’t you want me to
hold your hand, or talk to me? Everything inside of me wants nothing to do with
him. Is this normal?
A: Yes, this is extremely normal. It is traumatizing. Let’s
use a medical analogy to understand this better:
Imagine you are in car accident. You are in the passenger
seat and several people have been hurt. Hero shock is when you don’t notice
your own gash and bruises. Your brain
goes into hero shock mode, and you take care of other people – you are hurt
also, but don’t notice. Once the others
are stabilized and in a safe condition, your brain begins to come out of shock,
the awareness of your brain surfaces, and it is horrific. Now you can feel all of the pain and
gashes. If a man is in true recovery,
he understands that you would go through this, and his therapist has prepared
him for this. He should have been trained
that his wife is going to fall apart, and be a mess, angry, hurt, &
scared.
If you haven’t read it yet, please read article on blog
called “The Broken Foundation”. The
story goes – once a woman married a man.
Similar to a man who just poured cement, he invites his wife to come and
build a home on it. It looks okay to
her, and she’s not a concrete expert, so she agrees, and puts heart into it,
she puts her children in it. One day a corner collapses, right under where the
baby is. After everything ok, she finds
out something was missing and a gap was in the foundation.
When all he says is ‘sorry’, if you had this experience,
would you go back to same person for the foundation? NO!! That would be crazy.
After they built hole for my (Maurice’s) house, I was
surprised to see big chunks of cement on the gravel. Someone explained that they are footings, and they put them under
where the heaviest parts of the house will in the future. Then they build a
house on it. Working with men, footings are things that are bigger and stronger
than you, like God, Christ, the atonement, things way beyond your psychological
strength –these need to be under man’s foundation.
When he comes, and invites you to come build a house on
it….to come try it again, a woman goes to look at foundation, then she pulls
out a sledge hammer and begins pounding and pounding on the cement. Why?
Because if it cannot handle a sledgehammer, it can’t handle a home.
Sledgehammer mode is not a surprise. It is an instinct.
If a builder stands there calmly watching her pounding on
it, then he’s pretty sure he did it right.
If he isn’t sure, then he will be emotional and sensitive to it.
Building a home with a man, is a risky business
anyways.
Pounding actually looks like conversations with significant
intensity. (Not raging banshee mode – dignified, and firmly intense and
challenging) What are you doing now?
Why should I trust you now?. If he is still unstable, he
will be moody and emotional and unable to accept your frustration. If a recovering addict, he will have empathy
towards you watching your home crumble.
If it is still about him, then it isn’t safe to rely on and invest in
the marriage yet. Better to put
yourself into a holding pattern.
Clarify Q: He’s doing great, I don’t want to be mean, I
don’t have coping mechanism. I don’t know what to do, so I just walk away.
A: Don’t feel bad about lack of experience. Don’t plan on
doing well and right. If you are still worried about spinning him or triggering
him, then he isn’t stable yet. He can
never blame wife for being triggered etc.
Wife isn’t one of the footings of his foundation -- she isn’t making sure he stays
stable. Woman doesn’t have time to
worry about his stability due to the trauma, so he may not be in addict mode
any more, but not ready to be a husband. Don’t baby sit his emotions by
ignoring your own.
You can say, “I’m not in a position to talk right now…too
scared, worried..etc.” Man training
goal is to train men to re-anchor with God, rejuvenate, and come back with more
fortitude from Christ, not from wife, as she is bleeding. He needs to go into
full, paramedic take care of woman mode.
Q: Separated
for 14 months – divorcing. Last night, looking at fb messages, when something
popped up in folder – a message received in Sept, but didn’t see, that told me
H was cheating on me. Thought I had
dealt with a lot of it, but everything has come up again for me right now. Not sure how to deal with this. How do I process this?
A: As woman you
were built to care, and to invest. There’s something that happens even when you
aren’t in relationship anymore.
Relationship is similar to being attached to a helium balloon…we think
he’s probably making improvements, give benefit of doubt, and assume other
people are improving. A blatant
revelation that he isn’t improving, it is horrifying, and will bring back lots
of stuff. While 14 mo. is a while, it
is still fresh in world of pain. If women were shallow, callous, and uncaring,
this problem wouldn’t exist. Built to
be sensitive and vulnerable and built to care.
Grief cycle – you don’t go through once. It is like practicing piano, or
a sport. Maurice refers to visual example from his book “I’m not OK, You’re not
Ok, that’s Ok” – (which is free for all Worth ladies), and discusses grieving
cycle…
When men therapists got grief cycle, they drew lines and
compartmentalized. Because men in military, had to get over things and move on
fast to keep fighting. A women’s brain doesn’t work that same way. Women will cycle through the grief cycle
hundreds of times. Just when you were resigned, (top left of diagram) something
happens in brain that gives you hope again, until you think through again, and
become angry again, then resigned, or bargaining again. There would be no
miracles on planet if you didn’t go through this cycle. It is not just grief,
but a miracle cycle, as a miracle is something that is unlikely to happen.
M’s personal example, was that he resigned to having no
children of own. Fully resigned to this, and wife went through denial of
reality – known as hope. She said “I’ve been thinking” (translated as, I have
hope in unrealistic situation) – it was what was used when catastrophic
marriages are healed, when Christ brough Lazarus from the dead. Our job (Maurice & staff) is to try and
help you prepare for this, even if it isn’t likely to happen.
Average woman takes about a week to get through this in the
beginning. Later hones skills to get
through in about 7 minutes.
Further clarification
Q: Thanksgiving
coming up. He is supposed to come down to see kids, what do I do?
A: Prophecy
what is it going to be like? If he’s same guy he usually is, make a plan
accordingly. Sometimes men and women
can’t ever be in same place at same time.
Other times he can be amicable, and be useful in kitchen or with
kids. If on verge of divorce, I
wouldn’t spend any time-sharing feelings about it. Don’t cast pearls before swine.
Don’t share feelings with a man who doesn’t care, it’s probably not
going to inspire him to start caring today.
If he’s amicable, just roll with it, and keep working on your healing.
Q: H very angry
at me because parents now involved, back to criticizing me for being hateful,
resentful. Have felt healing power of forgiveness, and read to let go. Rest of
week very stonewall, didn’t want to talk. By Sat. he wanted to go to dinner
before stake conference. Went out had nice conversation, until he started
talking about ADHD, his business. I
said, “you know, you don’t have to have own your own practice if it is too much
for you – your practice is sale-able, and you could work for someone else.” His interpretation was, “You think I can’t
provide for our family.” I thought I was being compassionate…he responded with
utter rage, out door. Horrible.
Response, “I don’t think going to handle right, and feel
like this conversation best had with therapist to convince you otherwise.” I
don’t know how to act around him. Here let’s hug it out. He’s been cold and
mean all week, and then a victim, and then wants to give me a hug – how do I
keep it all straight?
A: Kamikazee mode means: after you have some practice and
have good self care skills, and you notice that you have rituals that make you
tough that make you strong and stable. If other person attempts to improve
marriage, if you feel inspired, then we can try kamikazee (coming from WWII
Japanese running planes into boats as heroic acts). You really push for excellent time together, but have strength to
withstand. Don’t try unless you are really strong and stable – and there’s 5%
chance it may help marriage.
Unfortunately, he wasn’t prepared to handle as well as we
hoped, so he is walking fragile. What went wrong was your attempt to help, came
packaged in “you should do something differently” phrase, and it was heightened
and accentuated in his head.
Q to woman – how are YOU?
Not teetering – just pounded out on treadmill at gym.
Q to woman - How do you bounce back from H that doesn’t
edify situation?
#1 thing, is to tell someone you used to be there, but I
decided to lay my own foundation, starting with books like “What can I do about
me?”, then I figured out who I am…what I like, what do I do? What kind of
person am I? Had to repeat over and over to myself. Had to figure out who I am,
so that when he tells me something I am, I can recognize if it is true or
not.
A: Expounds
- I’m kind of woman who writes in journal, so that when he is mean, or distant,
or abandoning ship you can solidify yourself to clarify your identity, then
expand to situational identity. Do the things you want to be the kind of woman
you are, willing to take risks.
Q: He can’t get
head around fact he is mentally not okay.
Says, “If you would just love and accept me. Will you ever be proud of
me?” He never hears it.
A: Psychologically
still dependent. When we imagine marriage, it is very different then what we or
they think. When he expects a cheerleader, doesn’t realize that she can’t be
his immortal support system. Don’t get
involved in a man’s developmental process.
Notice – but recognize that “not qualified to teach you how to handle
situation correctly so that I’m not giving you advice.” Don’t give a man advice. And don’t go to husband for advice, go to
God. One man came to Maurice with
briefcase full of lists of wife’s issues. Don’t create diagnostics for them.
Recognize what they are doing is painful, and have them find someone to help
them fix.
Q: A week ago, I
was under impression that things were ok. Got hit with a bomb. H hasn’t had
lost battle since March. After lying about it, and opening conversation, he
made comment – “when you went to friend’s house, had a hard time. Well…hold on, actually had lost battle last
month and last week” – then rolled over to go to sleep. Woke up, not okay – if you lied to me, you’d
be sleeping somewhere else for a week. Felt like time for in house separation –
need you to move downstairs – this is what I need to feel safe. I feel he’s
okay, but maybe he isn’t. I worry I will be too trusting later one. Gave
specific list for him to use of what I need to feel safe & to be
intimate. What do you have to say about
not trusting too easily, and fine line of separation?
Last night went over budget – he’s been totally avoiding.
He’s been spending $200 fast food each month.
Feels like he’s using this instead of porn. Hard because just found out
that I’m expecting – most awkward conversation ever. Asked “who going to go
see? How much will this cost?” What boundaries do I need to have with finances?
A: You aren’t
alone – many women reaching out to you here. Go into pioneer woman mode with
finances. If he isn’t ready to synergize efforts with finances – you will need
to know budget – even have separate accounts, so you don’t care where the money
goes. Only budget what’s there. Some men are relieved to not have
responsibility for money.
Man should be having mentality to make sure you have enough
money anyway. Make sure he has allowance account – there are many accounts that
you can’t overspend on. Maurice has
this with his college son and can see every transaction.
Hard lines are difficult to put into place. Looks like at
least 3 months in house separation. During this time, a woman’s discernment
will sharpen. Girls in dating stage, we want them to spend time apart to
clarify. We don’t want her to soften her expectations. If you have a girl
spending time with sketchy guy, you want her to spend time away to enhance
clarity and sharpen discernment. We
want to get to point when not just behaviors, but rather can sense his
vibrations. Woman with trained discernment doesn’t need to ask any questions.
Explains hand on the chest technique:
If asking men questions who have been lying or cheating –
answers will be twisted.
- Ask questions just watching and feeling what their body does when they answer.
- Place hand on chest, look straight through eyes to the back of his skull. Ask specific question. They will get twitchy if they are losing battles.
- Do not wait to hear words that come out of their mouth.
- Do not ask question while preoccupied, or looking away.
- Make sure close enough to read it coming off of his skin. Some men will say didn’t do anything wrong, so you can’t tighten boundaries etc.
Response – you aren’t safe enough for me to be close
to. Do not use social normal standards
for what you want going on in your marriage. M has never met a woman with crazy
standards (except perhaps for alphabetized shoes).
Clarify: Like where to divide up money, she stays home
taking care of kids, and it is our money. Would it be okay to step in, feel
need to?
A: Anytime
another’s choices make it so you can’t live ideal lifestyle, need to step in.
Women have a celestial pull or ideal.
But if person in your relationship isn’t maturely developed, then you
have to drop to other level where one is in charge and other just drags
along. If forced to do it because he
isn’t doing it well, state, “willing to do for a while, but in a few months we
will need to re-evaluate.”
Q: Husband
had 4th disclosure end of August. Had 4 different affairs in varying
degrees. Last one, he hasn’t gone all the way, so hasn’t considered
affair. Last one was more physical, he
couldn’t live with it, so he went to bishop and stake pres. who told him to
tell her. He moved out for 2 months, I realized from “What can I do about me”,
what recovery looks like or doesn’t. This time, I believe he is in
recovery. He really truly is in
recovery – he is giving me space, or not touching, whatever I want. Why am I not ecstatic? I’m on a roller
coaster and a mess and don’t know what to do with this!
A: Jennifer
recommends looking back on the earlier conversation about the foundation.
Every brain comes equipped with a mechanism, which is for
safety and protection. It comes with amazing mathematical skills. It will calculate likelihood of you getting
hurt again, based on past, and patterns of prediction, and it is there to serve
and help you. Across the room in the
brain, is the hope mechanism, which believes David can beat Goliath… we can’t
get rid of this part of brain. As such,
there’s a tug of war in brain between those two parts of the brain, feeling
like brain is going back and forth.
Statistician part of brain is thinking about gold rush in
San Francisco – how long should a miner keep going until they give up? If they went 5 days, then found gold, turns
into a pattern. How many days do you
have to go before you give up? Brain is measuring days/weeks/mo. between his
lost battles.
Her brain is calculating that you have to see equal amount
of time, times 2. If 2 years since dumb behavior, your brain will need 4 years
before it starts to relax. Brain keeps
saying, he could still get stupid again…too dangerous and scary.
If he is in recovery, he will truly pace himself – use Jacob
as example in bible…waited 7 years for wife, then an additional 7 years. We tell men that they should be patient for
many years, and stable and strong.
M had a case where man had affair 3rd year of
marriage, had another 13 years later. Unless divine intervention, in this case,
wife has to wait 30 years for animal brain to kick in.
Hopes he is telling the whole truth – M’s experience with
addicts is that it may not be.
As scientist, job is to prepare you for likely things to
happen. But with God, things can happen faster than expected. Women who have had this experience say it
isn’t “maybe” it is very clear. You will not be confused, you will be
certain. If God wants this to recover
faster than average or normal – you will know, it will not be a maybe.
Healthy and recovering addict is very aware of his own
tendency to slip, and can describe in detail the process of becoming
stupid. If he can’t describe play by
play, in significant detail, his body chemistry, his thoughts, and all of the
levels then not in real recovery.
Q: Afraid to go
out, see “her” around town.
A: Don’t go
there – don’t push it, don’t rush it. Allow brain time to heal. Going out in
public, and seeing her….work with the Worth group…we will get you to point to
where you feel stronger than she ever was. You will walk through town with chin
high, and it will radiate and others will think she should be drinking from
bottle in gutter, but look at her.
Don’t focus on what others will think. Role play quality confrontations
with this woman – don’t say anything, facial expressions,…do it so that you can
feel comfortable with it. Forgive them
for they know not what they do… Get to point where one day you will have
compassion for her that she would allow self to fall into that situation, and
to say, “Woman, you didn’t destroy me…” “I am a woman who…”
You can plan ‘scientifically speaking’ on 1 month of intense
therapy for every month that man has had problem. So if 22 years of mis-behaviors, it will take 22 months of
intensive treatment for him to recover. The Men of Moroni program can be very
beneficial. Just plan on one month for each year = 35 years is 35 months.
Know, that there are many men who do really well, who figure
stuff out, who work hard and do get their act together. There are some who have been working on
their recovery for 12 months, and the wife still is healing. He should be able
to be patient and wait.
Q: About men turning around after hitting
rock bottom – time frame?
A: Some get
scared, and turn around quickly. Some take a really long time. If the patience turns to abusive (verbal,
emotional), then the time frame for healing begins again, but if it is just
annoying.
Q: Formula
for how many months of healing women need?
A: No, I don’t.
Women are so complicated. So many variables in female recovery.
Most women have experienced so much trauma by time 30 years
old, whether in elementary/middle school, and significantly horrible stuff,
then variables of what he is going through – no timeline – please don’t put
self on timeline, and be patient, persistent and kind to yourselves.
Comment –HF can give own formula for our life – HF can help
you know what to do, and understand your timeline.
When you watch spiritual healing it is astounding when
mixing science and spirituality together.
Do a lot of reading, stimulate your mind, but find that part within you
of what you trust so you can sense truth, and leave open for personal
revelation, for what God will tell you.
Maurice’s team doesn’t have all answers, but focus on the
thoughts and ideas and revelations you get right after meetings where the
inspiration come personally to you from God.
Document what you learned after this meeting, and allow HG to teach
you.
Please join Jennifer’s meeting, consult Jennifer and get
self into other meetings, she is fully qualified, and these groups are places
to feed off of other’s energy.
Final note: There will be no Thursday group this week.